Both Stephen's article and Sarah's article have really stirred up some interesting topics that really have nothing to do with the original point at all. And I have sincerely enjoyed reading them all. What seems a bit interesting is that so many posters aren't really addressing the true subject of the original topic... that of being given the gift of another form of control and dominance and submission in a relationship.
There are so many forms of control... mind control, emotional control, and physical control, just to name a few. In most cases, the woman must exercise some control herself and choose to submit. Unless she is tied down, or up as the case may be, even submitting to a spanking is a choice she has to make even if she doesn't want the spanking. She still has a choice at that moment to submit to it or not.
When a woman is physically taken against her will (and I am talking about in a consensual non-consensual way and am in no way talking about in a stranger off the street or in a fit of anger in a relationship way) something happens deep within her (in some women, anyway) that is very hard to explain. There is just something very humbling and eye opening when the man can control her and her body even when she is physically resisting.
When I am lost in the struggle and fighting tooth and nail to not be taken, and my body begins to respond and my eyes grow wide and my face burns with humiliation and I fight harder and struggle to not let happen what I know is about to happen and he sees it and feels it and becomes even stronger in his insistence to have all of me… When my body explodes in release and I am still fighting and the knowledge and acceptance sweeps over me that in reality, even if I wanted to be free, my body will always belong to him, at any given time and in any given situation that he so chose… It's very hard to describe what happens inside me then. That kind of control is very different from other kinds of control and for some, it is important that they feel it along with the rest too.
I don't believe it's about sexual repression or suppression or feeling ‘dirty’ or traditional roles or anything else. It is about being controlled and it does bring on a very deep and primal response that is very animalistic and eye opening to just who is who in the relationship. Or who is what in the relationship.
Some women only want/need a small amount of control; others crave deeper control. And that is not implying they want or need to be micromanaged. They want to be controlled where the control is quite literally taken to a physical level. That is just one way it can be done for some.
As far as it being a gift...God yes, it's a gift from the man to give us that form of his power and domination. Because as was stated in an earlier post, just the fact that one knows they can and choose not to is very powerful indeed. But to actually be allowed to feel it and live it is, after all, a gift from the one who has the power.
What works for each of us individually and as a couple may not work for all of us. But...none are better or lesser than the other. We just are.
It may be different for various women but can we narrow it down a little?
I agree it isn't about repressed sexuality any more if it ever was but then what? What makes one woman's toes curl and swoon at the idea of force and another to reject it completely?
Any new ideas? I myself am going nuts trying to figure out why I am the toe curling type. obviously we aren't letting this one go until some of us have some peace.
Why can it not just be primal lust? There is so much to sex that is instinct. It is safe, in the animal sense, to have strong man, who can make you submit. How can a man protect you if he can not even make a woman submit? What kind of man would that be, in the pure animalistic sense? Of course some of us fantasize about being taken, if a man can take you, make you submit, he has a much better chance of taking care of you, protecting you from other men, animals and other dangers. I think this is even more powerful if you are an intelligent, strong willed, strong woman. It means more. I does not matter what the submission is, or what forms it takes, but it feels good to some women because it is instinct. Some of us are just more in tuned to our animalistic selves. It can be a good thing. It certainly can improve you sex life and make you FEEL more strongly for your man. In some ways submission is a wonderful feeling. If it is not something given lightly, then it can be even more powerful.
I like to realise that I cannot resist my husband. And it is nice to see that he desires me so much that he would not respect my "NO" if I don't give a good reason to his "why not?" Usually I should be feeling sick, having monthlies or if being extremely tired - warn him before we are in bed.
I can't lie to him. Just can't.
To my mind it is very clearly that a woman is attracted to the power of a man. We like men being strong, we love feeling it. It is just like men are attracted to female beauty and tenderness.
For me, the rape *fantasy* is all about desire. In particular, a man's desire for me being so strong, his lust being so powerful that absolutely *nothing* can stop him from taking what he wants: me. Nothing turns me on like my man having that look in his eyes that says he wants me, he wants me now and he means to have me.
This wouldn't work for most people, but when my husband first took me this way, I really got lost in the physicality of being dominated on such an intimate and primal level. Every time my husband "takes me" I get that same thrill of being subsumed by the male power.
The word "primal" is being bandied about a lot as an explanation for why women have rape fantasies. "Primal" can have different meanings. From a male perspective, a primal need for sex can be as integral as eating and breathing because it is a necessity for survival of the species. When a woman has rape fantasies, it's not just about sex--it's about a type of sexual experience and that's a higher order brain function. It's still not a very high order brain function because the exact reasons for the fantasies aren't directly known. It's not as if there was ever a logical process to arriving at the fantasy. Most people, with the fantasy, have had it for almost as long as they can remember.
"Primal" can also refer to a level of civilization. That is more applicable. Modern civilization often views romance and sex as an intellectual exercise and sometimes forgets about the raw sexuality that is still a necessary part of sexuality. A rape fantasy removes all the veneer of civilization and gets down to a more primal physicality. Intellectual thought is replaced by physical action. There is no civilized courtship with its attendant questions about whether the woman is interested or approving about the man's ritual approach. The man is taking what he wants and the woman is surrendering to a greater power. I've heard from some women that this surrender is proof that the man is worthy of having her.
An interesting psychological examination of a strong woman's force fantasies can be found here.
